How Singers and Songwriters Can Level Up Their Marketing - Featuring Caitlin Mahoney

Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.songfinch.com/stories/f5216b06-219e-4d9a-8389-da29ea85781e

Check out Caitlin's music: https://www.caitlinmahoney.com/epk
https://www.caitlinmahoney.com/
https://open.spotify.com/album/0hb97LX1Am6FNsgBcEemrp

Roberta's Pizza in NYC: https://www.robertaspizza.com/
Jon & Vinny's Pizza in LA: https://www.jonandvinnys.com/



Owning a business is a challenge. Knowing how to keep innovating in your business is an even bigger one. Join restaurant owner, motivational speaker, and innovation expert Sara Frasca each week as she guides fellow business owners in taking the next step to level up their business. If you've ever pondered hiring a business coach but want a sample first, come along for the adventure!

Send us a message to join the show for free business guidance: https://pointnortheast.com/contact-us/

Sara Frasca is the founder and owner of Trasca & Co Eatery in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida, an experienced and engaging motivational speaker, and the CEO of global business coaching firm Point NorthEast.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

You're listening to level up your business, the podcast where we talk to hardworking business owners and leaders and help them solve real issues in real time. I'm your host, Sarah Frasca restaurant owner, keynote speaker and business coach. I've spent my career not only in corporate America, but also as an entrepreneur, carrying on my family's legacy through my restaurant. Now a business coach and consultant. I'm helping other businesses to use creative problem solving and innovative thinking to drive lasting change. Stay tuned to hear some inspiring guidance that will help you to level up your business. Well, welcome to level up your business podcast. Caitlin Mahoney. We are so excited to have you here today. We've actually never had a singer songwriter, and certainly not one as famous as us. So we're excited to have you on today. Thank you for being here. Hi, I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. So Mike is opponent. I both point northeast coaches and just trying to help people really level up their business, our slogan is kind of up and to the right. We want to make sure that we're taking people in their business along the path, helping to shepherd them through good decisions, and leveraging data and all the things like that. And you and I have, you know, kind of a history together here in Ponte Vedra Beach. And so I figured maybe we could start out with just a little bit. I know who you are, obviously. But maybe you could share with our listeners and even to Mike, you know, kind of your past your business, all of the things that make you you. Yeah, definitely. Well, I'm very excited to be here. And this is just like, I feel like this is my favorite kind of conversation. And I feel like I'm just met you, Mike. But since you roll with Sarah, I feel like this is probably your favorite kind of conversation to so truly just like really excited to do this. And yes, so I am a artist, a singer and a songwriter. And, sorry for the bone chewing. That is my dog, Annie right on cue. She's like, Oh, you're trying to record something right now? Well, I'm going to give you told you this. But Mike and I both have dogs. And we've already told each other like, we're not locking our dogs out anymore. Like they're on the podcast to the urine. Great company. I mean, that's the way to do it. You know? Yeah. I'm sure it's high security this time of year whenever someone shows up at the door. So you're there's a high probability you'll hear from someone? Yes. Yes. It's, you know, they're just they're doing their jobs. They're like, right. And, well, yes. So I write songs, and I love to sing. And I have been doing that. My probably my whole life in different formats, but I started seriously writing songs. A little over 10 years ago, I always wrote songs growing up. And then I moved to New York City. And I actually, I went to Florida State and I studied English and also music. And so I had a job as at a publishing company. And I was kind of like, trying to figure out, you know, like, most 21 year olds, like, what do I do with my life. And I just moved to New York and going to open mic nights was a great way to meet friends and meet people in the city. And so I kind of got like, the bug pretty fast of like, Oh, I'm writing the songs and people seem to like them. And let's see if I can figure out why and keep writing songs and and that has turned into a series of awesome life adventures. And I'm working on releasing my fourth recorded work my third full length album. And so I've gotten a tour all over the United States and in Europe, I've done pretty much everything independently. I've worked with a lot of wonderful people who have helped me and supported me and collaborated with me, but I've never been signed to a label or an agency or anything like that. So it's all just been me trying and growing it and so I've always admired Sarah and and FRAC and In Chaska, in the small business of Drafthouse, I'm just like a huge fan of the food and the vibe. And, you know, so I feel like we've always connected on that. And I, most people who are, would describe themselves as artists, singer songwriters are about, you know, kind of the music don't talk to me about the business side of things. And I've always felt like my ace in the hole is that like, I like that stuff. I like that challenge. And the world of music business has been nothing but ever changing and full of kind of obstacles and challenges for the people making the music. And I think that's kind of what inspired us coming to this conversation here is, how do you how do you do it? If you're not Taylor Swift? Or if you don't have just either, like a label that's going to own everything, and even Taylor Swift was not immune to that, or just infinite amounts of money to throw at it. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. That's great. Yeah. And and I, you know, in jest called you the the Taylor Swift of Pontevedra. Beat, which, you know, I clearly there's no one like Taylor Swift. But you are an amazing singer and amazing songwriter. I think my favorite song is prison right now. So it just so much heart so much energy. And I think, you know, a lot of women can really relate to your music. So anyway. So the business of kind of the music industry is something that that I don't know a lot about, I've never had access to it. And so as I shared with you, we have like, one question, for our guests that come on to the podcast, I can always been in business, we've always been kind of helping small businesses, growing small businesses, and then helping very large businesses as well. So our question for our guests, which is what I'm going to ask you next is, what's keeping you up at night, we want to help you solve on this podcast in real time, we've not heard your answer. So we both have no idea what you're going to say. But we really want to help you and I think take it to the next level. So what if your answer that question is keeping you up at night? I love that. I love that question. And this is so cool. Um, yes, what is keeping me up at night, I think what's on my mind right now is that I feel like I am in the, like, half time, if you go with the game metaphor of of my album release, I released five, or I'm about to release my fifth single to see this year. And I'm really leaning into kind of what they call the waterfall release method, which is where you release a single and then each single has all the, you know, it's basically kind of a streaming strategy. And my understanding is that, that strategy starts to really take hold, after about a year of consistent releasing as far as from a streaming numbers perspective. And the way that I feel aligned to it from a marketing standpoint is it also is a monthly point for any fans to grab hold, whether they're new fans or fans that you know, like, it's always it's a new thing as opposed to like, here's this album that I've invested a large sum of money into, and not to mention time and creative energy and etc. It's, it gives that a pretty long life. And so, what's keeping me up at night right now is a little bit of like, fear of staying the course in an ever changing technological, kind of, it's anybody's game like, especially as it relates to streaming and Tik Tok and Instagram and how can I focus in on revenue when I don't actually know like, so my album is going to come out in the spring, probably around On April of next year, and I have a number of marketing moments between now and then planned. And then the goal being to tour and do some concentrated kind of focus shows to promote the album, sell merchandise, and just kind of built continue to build those connections. So what keeps you up at night is, what if, by the time that happens, you know, almost six months from now, the waterfall method is obsolete, or I don't hit those streaming numbers that I'm kind of trying to work toward? You know, I guess that's kind of what's keeping me up at night is? Is it? Is it doable? To make this music business viable from a revenue standpoint? When the music industry just seems more and more difficult to kind of break through it breakthrough? I guess maybe as a it's worth that. So So I have some questions is, is it from a technical logical standpoint, like in other words, you're worried about the platform's? You know, what's the latest and greatest way to release? Or is it about the creativity, that timeline to be able to produce an album takes so long, that it's, you know, what you're producing today, as a year is coming out a year from now so or is it both? I think it's more the tech, the first part, the creative landscape of it is, it doesn't feel like I mean, for me, personally, it would be nice to like, get all of this music out and continue forward. But it's, it feels like it can kind of stand the test of time from that perspective. So I think it's more just kind of learning about. Spotify is constantly changing. It's getting harder and harder as an independent artist without, like management, or kind of like pretty big connections to get any inroads and get support from Spotify. And so the way that I feel like I can do that is by following these release strategies. And like building, I think, something that Sarah and I were talking about, leading up to this and just kind of picking her brain of starting to cultivate a local community and following for my music and using that as a as a way to kind of side by side, keep these release strategies going and hopefully, continue to build the streaming numbers. So I think it's it's, and I don't know if the analogy would work. But to me, it seems like, you know, Google and SEO, you know, search engine optimization, and all those things, are there forever changing the rules of what makes you relevant? So you're hiring, you know, an SEO expert or a marketing expert to be able to help guide you through that ever changing landscape of what's going on? Is there something like that for the music industry? And is that is that a relevant analogy? Yeah, that's, that's great. I think it is a relevant analogy. And I think it's, it's comparable because it's like Google. And Spotify, you know, it's like Spotify is, is becoming kind of the behemoth and it's, it's a bit unregulated as far as the way that people are listening to music majority is through Spotify. And, yeah, I just have a question and again, like, forgive the dumb questions, but again, not being in the music industry. I really don't understand, does it cuz I know you're on Spotify. I have Apple music. So I listen to you through Apple Music. So they're different streaming services. You put your music on that platform and when someone streams it, they pay you. So yes, so is yes. So I focus a lot of my my strategy on Spotify only because it seems to be the biggest user, like, you know, of my fan base, and kind of like Target fan base that just, and I'm just one person. So I think and also it's the most accessible for independent artists to kind of get their data and manage it and see like, Oh, I'm on this many playlists, I'm, you know, streaming this much here. So they, they just seem to be like, almost hit ahead when it comes to that kind of thing. But I use it. Most independent artists use a digital service provider and the, or maybe it's digital streaming, DSP. And those send your music out to Apple Music, Tik Tok, Spotify, title, all basically everywhere, that they're streaming. And they're kind of the go between. So it's a, it's advantageous to have your administrative ducks in a row, when it comes to releasing music. So like, for example, I just, I just set up my next single for release. And I triple check like 20 times that I had all my made it metadata correct. And so it's all me then distro kid who I use, sends it out. And you know, you give them enough lead time to make sure that it'll be out by December 29, when my next single will be. Wait That date again, December 29, December 28. And I just want to make sure I put it in my calendar. Kind of a Funny time to release music is the couple days before but I it's working for me sounds really great. I'm sorry, I just have ideas, but I'll let my guests because question, then we can come back to it. So is there within within the platform you're using, I'm assuming there's gotta be your your there's a lot of artists doing what you're doing. So I have to imagine that there is a there user groups, or there's or there's some means of staying on top of this. And whether it's just following, you know, best practices and things like that the fact that you're worried about it is, is the first solution, right? You're you're not immune to, you know, oblivious to the fact that, hey, there could be an ever changing landscape that I'm not, you know, that I'm unaware of. So I think, you know, the fact that you're concerned is a really big bonus for you. And the fact that you have the business side of the you know, being an artist and being, you know, being a business person are, it's a rare scenario. So, again, I feel like you have a lot of things on your side for that, but I would source out those sort of user groups, and you know, that data, whether there's, you know, online or or, you know, whatever, there's got to be something out there for your industry. I don't know a whole lot about it. I've been on the other side of the music industry. So I don't know, from the artist side. Not familiar, but I feel like the best people that I know that were successful as artists professionally, that had a good business, have they they're the ones that really, you know, excelling in that market. So and we tend to print in that aspect. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, I would agree, I would say, you know, a lot of our clients are exactly like you in that they are experts of their craft. And they need to get to a different level. And so again, that's kind of what we do with a lot of our coaching. And I love Mike's analogy of the SEO and kind of finding an expert to help you within Spotify. Because if that's the venue that is working the best having the capacity to dial in exactly who you're going after how you're utilizing it. I mean, I even think of like, you know, in a in a brand's digital marketing strategy, you're going after specific targets. I'm making this up, but you know, my background is with General Mills. And so it was like, Okay, if, if someone has just had a baby, then they might need Cheerios in six months, because that's baby's first finger food, right? So like, we would know that and we would be able to mark it to someone, you know, a little while after they had had a baby there. They're doing Google searches for diapers, so chances are they need Cheerios. So that example and kind of you know pinpointing exactly who you want and where they're going, who else are they listening to? And being able to feed kind of, you know, maybe it's advertisements maybe it's because I have seen on Spotify and on Apple where they'll say like, you know, like this artist, you may like these artists and then that would be a really good way to kind of get you showcased. So I really liked that and and you know, I think I'm also and Mike I know for a fact is also like shoestring budget like we're good at that we're really good at like scrappy. You know, like I, I didn't come from a wealthy family, I have done everything, you know, through an SBA loan and through all those things. So I was thinking, I wonder if there are any grants or that sort of thing that you could get in order to hire the Spotify expert. The other angle that I've done is I have leveraged the company and said, you can mark it me when you make the magic happen. Yeah. So when a good case study, take me on and you can leverage it to the hilt. I think I think the other side of that when when you're hiring someone, and I've always found especially for for startups are you cannot afford to have someone do it for you. It's like, I'd love to pay my personal trainer to go to the gym for me, and I want the results to just testing work that way, you have to do the work. And I think with, you know, with SEO or with this, you're going to always need to have your hand in that mix. Because you'll be able to better direct, no one's looking out for you more so than you. So I think it's really important that you never lose touch with that a lot of people want to take that responsibility and throw it off somewhere. And it's not successful early on, or I don't even know if it's ever successful. But, you know, at least in the early on, you really have to be you know, in the mix. Yeah. Ready for my next idea? Yes. writing so much down. So that's okay, so, um, you know, I think and again, being kind of a Dum Dum for the music industry, I'm just trying to brainstorm all of the possible revenue angles, because the way I look at it, and this is how I did it with the restaurant, you never have just like one, you know, kind of solid Intel, it works. And then you've got one solid stream of revenue, right? Like, you have to actually lean into a bunch, and then they'll start to take off. So I was thinking, the more you diversify, the better. There's the touring. There's the merchandise, there's actually selling the streaming. There's, like, maybe some, I'm thinking like corporate shows, or focus shows for like a birthday or whatever, for like different people. And then I was thinking, Could you do some custom music? Because one of the things and this type of stuff always makes me chuckle. And I think it's brilliant. But like, during COVID, I think it was, is their name, Hannah Wodsworth. That was in TED lasso. She would call people and say Shame, shame, shame, which was her line and Game of Thrones. For two people that like you would just have her call them and say it. And but you had to pay her because again, like during COVID, we were like all, you know, starving artists. So not me, but the artists community. So I don't know if there's like a custom angle. But I do have a funny story for you. Just I love that quick tidbits. So there's this little business out there called thong Finch. I don't know if you've seen it. No. Alright. So it came across my Instagram. And he dragged me in. I mean, I was all in because there was this wife and this husband, and she made him a custom song. And he's driving, he's listening to it, it is so meaningful. And it was like all about their life. And he looks over he's like, and so I was hooked. And I was like, this is the perfect gift for my anniversary for my husband. So I go on to Song finish, and I paid $200 I'm kind of embarrassed about that part. But anyways, I was like, this is the perfect gift, like the crying and the like, oh my gosh, I don't know how much I love him and all those things. So the song comes back, and it's based off of everything I wrote. And it is so bad. I mean, so bad. So bad, so bad. I literally cannot tell you how bad it is. It's like that ad. And I mean, I was horrified. And I emailed them right away. And I was like, this is awful. This is not what I wanted. This is like the most worst. Like, I don't want this, I don't. And they were like, hey, we'll give you a code to get $100 off your next song. And I was like, What, you're gonna make me pay more to get another son. Like they wouldn't help me at all. My point is, I told my cousin and my cousin is a theatre artist, she's a she's an actress. And she was like, Well, what did you expect? $200 And you thought you're gonna get like Taylor Swift. You know, like, Yeah, but I was like, Oh my God, it was a lot of money. Like I thought so my idea for you is custom music because you could actually do it right. And you can charge $200 Because PS I think they used AI and it's awful. That is why Yeah. Song by the way. Wait, say that again. What did you think of the song was it what did he love it? John? No. Need to turn it off. Have my pins. Yeah, no, I mean, like everyone who has heard it makes fun of it because it's that bad. I'll send it to you all that bad guys. I'll put it in the notes for the show. Because it's worth a listen. That is so yeah, I can't wait. That's like an idea of like, could you post and do like an online business where you would make a custom song for someone, and maybe it's $500. And they get another version? If you ask if they ask politely like, Hey, can you change this to this? And then you're like, yeah, yeah, I, I guess I've always only thought of those in in context of like, I've done a lot of crowd crowdfunding for, you know, like, different records over the years. And that was one of the, you know, you kind of like, if you pledge a certain amount of money, or donate to the Kickstarter, this amount of money, you get those kinds of things. But I've never really thought about just kind of like offering it, I think that could be interesting. I'm currently, I have a Patreon account, which has been kind of like another subscription based thing that a lot of artists have done. The problem is now that like, there's the whole social media aspect of things, and Instagram blocks, any mention of Patreon, because it takes them away from the platform that they're currently on. So there's that whole thing too, which I'm sure is probably a thing that your clients have come up against is just kind of constantly the invention of how social media is used. And, you know, what, where it reaches. And so that's definitely like, it's something that I put a lot of brain space towards. So I think that's interesting. I think my, my main thing is trying to do all of that in a way that is sustainable, and doesn't lead to burnout. Because often, the more in this, this is something that happens to with like playing corporate gigs, or wedding gigs, or even when I was doing the kids music, I was like, Okay, this is another music focused revenue stream. And then what ended up happening was, I was basically trying to build two businesses at once, because you can do the exact same thing for the kids music market, as I was in the middle of doing for my record a few years ago. And so it's, it's, I think that's, I mean, I'd love any thoughts you all have about pride, like prioritizing these things, add in us in a bit of a startup mindset. And not just feeling like, I'm doing all the things, I don't know how I could do more, you know, I think that's such a such a good point. You know, there's so many times where, you know, entrepreneurs have, you know, rapid thought process, and they're there, you know, rapid firing me to do all of these 25 things, and then you're running around, you end up burning out until, what's the highest and best use of your time? You know, what, we're what's yielding you the highest results, and, you know, really prioritizing in that, in that function would be the best way to do it. And I think, you know, business owners of all sizes struggle with that same scenario, we often see a very high paid to doing a job that they shouldn't be doing. So certainly prioritize based on, you know, highest and best use, what are your core competencies? What should you be focusing on? That that's a, you know, and be really conscious of those distractions and not worrying about issues that you don't have? In other words, uh, you know, we did a, we did a restaurant, and as we're building up the restaurant before he even opened, they're like, oh, we have a capacity issue, we need more seating, like, we've not seated a single person, and we're ready to expand, you know, and triple our overhead. So things like that, are there are the slides that entrepreneurs have a tendency to go down? On that note, I mean, I would say, and I still have more ideas, so don't don't think I'm done yet. But, um, I was gonna say, you know, one of the things that we, I kind of started sharing with you that again, we we work with a lot of people that are in your same boat in terms of having their craft, and then now they need to build the kind of the back end of their business in order to continue growing. And so the things that I would recommend is making sure that you're setting kind of a long term vision and it may be a three year vision, a five year vision, a 10 year vision, but it gives you that kind of point on the horizon. You know that that is really exciting. I mean, if you You could get to that if everything hit perfectly, it would be just tremendous. And so maybe that's your five year, then you want to back out what is your three year. And in order to hit that five year, your three year has certain milestones. So if your revenue target is, you know, a million dollars in three year or five years, then maybe it's half a million, because presumably, it's probably a little bit more exponential than just a straight line up. But anyway, the point is, what is the three year? And it's, you know, that's three years, then what is the one year mark? And then once you set your vision for the year, like, what is your 2024 vision? Now you start to chunk it out into the quarters. And so what do I need to accomplish? There you go, Amazon driver? My mom's gonna be murdered, said Lucy. So, so, um, you know, setting up those quarterly increments, what do you need to do from a marketing perspective, from a finance perspective from, you know, again, kind of networking, or you know, all of these different tools, and that becomes a little bit of a roadmap where you've got bite sized components in order to get to that huge vision. Yeah, and I think what that does is how many people just survive their day, very few people come in, and say, This is my day, today, their day is defined for them. So you know, with that plan in place, you have all the action steps, this is what I need to do this week, which is going to keep me on track for not only one year three or five, you're like, here's all the action steps. And so I'm gonna do this today, this tomorrow, it's like, you know, breaking it down into small, achievable steps. And it also feels good, when you did helps with not burning out because you're I accomplished these five things that I need to accomplish. And now I can move on. So you know, that that level of planning is highly successful. Even something we keep having to trade off, because our mics I know, they sometimes they reverberate. But um, sometimes that's little steps, even like the networking, one that I mentioned. And that's one where, you know, even someone who is building a business and doesn't have the sales background, they need a reminder, like, this is an important part of every single day, you need to carve out 10 minutes or an hour to literally pick up the phone and say, Hey, I haven't talked to you in a while I'm thinking about you, how are you? This is what I'm doing. Now? How are you? What are you doing? And so it's, you know, it's a little bit of the adage of good people, no good people, if you can make those connections on a consistent basis, that Kaizen that's developing those small incremental steps will yield big results over the quarter over the year over the three years. And so I'm thinking, again, I don't know exactly, but talking to people who have done it other artists throughout the country, maybe it's event planners or venues or those sorts of things. So okay, love that. Okay. Well, my next idea. Yes, I was thinking a little bit about the podcast idea. So there's like people, podcasting, including us, and, you know, just doing you know, exactly what we are wanting to focus on and like, have a passion point, it is so fun for us to talk to business owners like yourself in any genre, and come up with ideas in the moment to help them because there's like this intrinsic, altruistic, like, we're both capitalists, Mike and I, but we really want to help people, and we want to help them have a business that is thriving so that their life can be happy, right? I mean, it should be a give and take, there should be a business that is thriving enough that the business owner is like, this is great. So we just have people come on, and we get to chat about that. So I was curious, has anybody as a musician, done a podcast? That would be like maybe half talking half music half? Like I have no idea. Yes. Yeah. I've seen a lot of a lot of friends do that. And also just kind of like people in the community do it. i It was definitely was kind of a popular move in the pandemic as well. Gotcha. Gotcha. I think what I really like talking on podcast, I think that it again, is one of those things where it's like, which, which one do I focus my energy on is like, do I you know, I think where I feel like that strategy could come into play with me and maybe it kind of comes together with the networking piece, which I think I maybe have a natural inclination toward but I think you're right in that like, that's probably a better use of my time then, you know, building out extensive content for social media at this point, because the reality is I don't have like the The the time and the money really to put toward getting eyes on a lot of that social media stuff. So to be reaching out to people and building those connections is probably like, the better use of my time. And I think the podcast piece, for me what feels most valuable would be to be doing more of this, like, I was laughing when you suggest this because this is exactly what I'm trying to do more of is just have these kinds of conversations and and be a contributor to other people's podcast, you know, network and kind of content that they're building out. Yeah. Definitely not. Don't know if you should say definitely not Caitlyn? Definitely not. I mean, we'll see. We'll see. Let me ask you this. Caitlin, do you have a favorite pizza? Um, I? I do. I mean, well, I do want to know the truth. Oh, I was just thinking like, what do I usually order on my Trask pizza? Like, do who do the same thing. But I mean, it's kind of funny, because I was like, like, my first few months back here. I was like, Man, I'm kind of like, you know, kind of, like, get some more miles in or something. What am I doing? And then I realized, like, I needed a lot of traffic. And I can't help it. Like, I just want to have another piece because it's so good. So, so sweet. So Mike, and I travel all over and we we go to our clients locations, and we meet with them and we do strategic plans and those sorts of things. And then do speaking, and we always seek out a pizza place wherever we go. Because that's like our both of our thing. We're both Italian. We both owned pizza restaurants, so Okay, so you and Mike to talk because I know you lived in New York, you've lived in LA tell tell us your favorite piece of pizza places from those areas? Yeah. Okay. Yes. Hmm. Um, let's see. My favorite. Okay, in New York. It's Roberta's Have you ever had Roberta's? Where is it? It's in Bushwick. Yeah, Roberta's pizza. Oh, man, it's so good. It's like, kind of I think they have one called the bees thing. And it's like, got a little honey and like hot pepperonis. And yeah, it's good. It's a good vibe. And then I think in LA, it's John and Vinnies. Have you ever been to China minis? They're both bougie pizzas, but they are worth the worth the extra Boosh. Taking notes, because then we can go there when we go to these locations. These locations to go there. Yes, exactly. You have to get a client now let know. Who's getting we have several in New York. So that'll be good. Okay, so back to my ideas. Okay, so I got a couple more. I have a page of notes now. So you'll have to forgive me as I like, look up the word like, oh, have you ever thought of speaking? I guess like occasionally, but never. I would I would love to. Yeah. Being a stage performer. It feels like it's not that far of a you know, leap. And I was thinking to myself, you know, most people's aversion to being a speaker, they're like, Oh, I could never be on a stage and talk in front of a bunch of people. Like there's that stage fright that, again, I would imagine as a performer like, yeah, no big deal any longer. So speaking, I would say and do forgive me here, Mike. But the speaking industry needs more women. So I would say you know, I've been in the speaking industry for a while now. And though there's some tremendous men out there. And Mike, you're an amazing speaker. The world needs more females and more diversity, you know, for even corporate audiences. And I was even thinking back to a couple of TED talks where I've seen people like speak and then they play a song or they do something and it could be kind of incorporating in some business, because you're strong on the business side kind of weaving together. Something Isn't this messages with your music? Maybe? Yeah, I like that idea. Yeah, I so the record that I'm working on a big piece of it is, is kind of like, it's definitely mental health focus, but specifically kind of surrounding boundaries and self self love and self care as a way to like, care for the people in our lives that we're, you know, like, kind of healing a lot of codependency and not, you know, feeling like, oh, I have to prioritize everyone else above myself like. And so that's a big piece of the messaging. And so can be kind of interesting to like, build a little bit of a kind of talk or narrative around that as a way to share that story. That could be, that could be really cool. For what it's worth, I've started my very first class, Mike is in it. It's called Speak up. And it's like, you know, Professor SassaFrass. Guy, I have no credentials. But if I can be of help to you, as you think about that, let me know, because I do. I'm coaching now, a group of folks that are interested in speaking so that that was one that came to my head, yeah. Again, there may be an opening some one of the students is very close to flunking out. So that is not true. I love that. Yeah, that sounds really cool. All right. What do you think? Do you feel like we gave you some ideas? Yes, I really do. It feels. Yeah, I feel very energized and excited. And like, it's also just, like, helpful to talk this stuff out, you know, and kind of, like, bounce it. I think the big thing that I feel pretty compelled to do right now is like, I'm looking at almost like a product launch. And then I'm trying to just warm up what I could build locally, and like within the state of Florida, where like, you know, I think being the small fish in the LA and the New York ponds, for so long was really, really valuable. And not to say that I'm any any means a big fish in Florida, but I just feel like it's so familiar to me from growing up here. And like, my family and network. And so I'm trying to figure out, like, how to start cultivating that now. So that when I release the album, I can focus in on playing shows, you know, locally in Florida, to continue to build those connections and kind of embrace the hometown. You know, artist. potential that I feel like, I've always felt here. But kind of almost just feel like I was I was learning and growing elsewhere to kind of come back here and, and be part of it. I just wanted a thought or idea. What about a collaborative promotion, where you're you're getting other artists that are in similar situations, and you're collaborating and putting together your own your own adventure on your own concert. And that might also help, you know, with some of the local strategy and you know, 20 groups or brainstorming ideas? Yes, definitely. Yeah, that's that that would be a great way to, to kind of start to meet people for that goal. I really liked that locally. But I was also wondering if it could be done, you know, kind of country us wide, or maybe North America wide. And it was like, oh, Caitlin's from the Jacksonville area or Ponte Vedra Beach or Jax Beach, whatever you want to say. And then there's so and so from Oklahoma City, and so and so from Denver, and you make like a, like an alliance of similar like minded artists, where you're sharing maybe at that point, Hey, who are you using for social media? And what did you do about this? And how do you use Spotify and maybe there's even a an event you bring everybody together, and you bring in a Spotify person to tell you how to leverage it? What's the latest tips, and I have no idea but I liked Mike's idea. And I just wanted to say, I like the local but also like, perhaps finding people throughout the country that you're not like competing with Yes, definitely. Yeah. No, I think you're not even limited by the country could also it's an international community. You can take that as far as technology I'll let you know we're just trying to one up me. intertwined. I was thinking you should bring people in from Mars Welcome to the mic and Sarah show if there's never a dull moment. I like it's like it's on brand because, you know, it's like the whole growth thing. It's like, hopefully the world is the world is your oyster. That's good. Well, I'm, I've been I've already told you, I've got a bunch of ideas, I'm definitely going to connect you with with some folks, even though the woman that you met today is just a tremendous person in the community to make connections. And so I just, I feel so strongly. You're such an amazing talent, you're going to do well, so however, we can help, please let us know. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time and your ideas. And I love to this I could do it all day. If we're being honest, was really it was really nice meeting arts and what a neat, you know, twist because it's such a such a different, you know, a different industry. So, it's really exciting. So thanks for being on. Oh, yeah, I was gonna say, I don't know. I mean, how you're feeling about time, but would you be interested in a song? Yeah, we all participating. We're all gonna sing. No, if you're singing Yeah. Although I really am like, there's a part of me that really wants to rewrite the song for your husband that you were supposed to write. So if you want me to do that, I think you're connecting me I'll get you a gift idea for him. The song vomit bag No. Okay. I Caitlin I may take you up on that because anyway, all right. Okay, so let's see. I think it makes sure it's in tune I've been moving really you know takes it out yeah, it's like I got like really sick with like bronchitis for a while and so I haven't been singing as much I'm back to it now but it was kind of a bummer. So this is the song that I just released on Spotify and Apple Music and everywhere. And it's about kind of playing with the metaphor of the for seeing the forest through the trees and how it's always easier to see other people's forest than it is our own. And so it's kind of a love letter about anybody who's in the middle of their own forest and also anybody who is trying to cheer somebody on and love them alongside you know, a tough part of their journey and it's called forest and let me know if the sound is okay I know sometimes with these it's a little we'll see how it goes don't know how hard you run things on your name can ask for an opening once you get some ground under you you'll feel better can control how high trees grow oh the walk this down forms gathered up soon. It can see through through it how much you pay me to fight through they either come to We'll make a map right in front of you but my way out for you no good life will lead you you're the only one who can find their root out is you get the action she is through to it how much Jambi it's yours through chain for spring maybe watching me is to sit and away can see through the tree it doesn't hurt helps me to fight through things change boy you see that was amazing. Thank you. So casual phone call together. So great. Tell me the dog's name again. Oh yeah. You're playing it was really cool. He was like I want to be in the crowd. She's really good at finding like her little square. She's like, I'm here. That was unbelievable. What is the name of that song? It's called forest. Okay. Okay. And people can find you, I would assume on a website. Yes. Caitlin. mahoney.com. Perfect. And Spotify. Yep. And Apple Music. Okay, great. Yeah, Caitlin, thank you again, from the bottom of my heart for trusting us with this answer or this question I should say and helping you find an answer. It's an honor and really fun to have you on. Thank you again for playing for us. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. So nice. been great to meet you too. Thank you. I get I'm just I'm a fan. I already was a fan. But now I'm a fan of the podcast. So make the pizza you seem to me through my phone. It's a match made. So sounds great. Thank you. Bye. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of level up your business with me, Sara Frasca. If you have a problem in your business that's keeping you up at night. Please join us in a future episode so we can help get you unstuck. Just clicking the link in the show notes and send us a message. Please remember, stay innovative friends